Stop saying you would never do that

Sure, so the Sales Rebellion spawns from me being in the SMB space, and really I should clarify that, like I started with an SMB when I was selling copy machines, which was my father's business. We were doing about $1 to $2 million a year and we got gobbled up by an $8 million firm which turned into me growing that to $25 million over the course of 5 years.

Hmm.

And I recognized like in the midst of doing that, that the SMB space, even though it's fun and it's good and it was home for me for a long time, that like I was constricted by it to an extent. And so I had to always be thinking outside of the box when it came to revenue, when it came to accounts, and not to tell myself like, oh, you know, you could never win an account like Tupperware or these University of Central Florida and, you know, instead like go get them and take those accounts on, win them, and then grow your company, right?

So I ended up at Xerox, which is a billion-dollar organization, and then noticed that just like the sales landscape sucks in general and the mindsets suck, that the scripting sucks, the sequencing sucks, the cadences suck, and not all of it, right? But the majority of it does. And that everybody that I talked to in other industries that I was serving or even my own company, I just like rolled my eyes at what most people had to say and what were doing and looked at my own success from a radical authentic standpoint and said, well, why wouldn't people just be themselves?

Why wouldn't people use the true nature of things like psychology and like how humans truly interact with each other and stop masking it behind this falsity of business professionalism and get back to our roots? And so there was no better name than the Sales Rebellion to come into a space that's just kind of I mean, it's saturated, bro, with old white rich men, and I am going to be one of those one day, right?

So I'm, I'm kind of fighting against my own, my own race. But the thing is, is that I see something so much bigger than what those people have created for us inside of the space itself, is that we have a place that could be very inclusive. It doesn't have to be this elite space for you know, just a certain segment of human, but that culture is important in sales, connection is important in sales, fellowship is important in sales, and that we leave those things off the table too often, right?

But the people that have the most success in the industries, the silent majority, are the people that are doing those things. And so I said, well, to hell with being silent. Let's get loud, let's get proud, and let's rebel.

Cool. That's awesome. I love it. And I definitely hear you re— kind of stale sales methodology, stale sequencing. That's a big one. Like, you know, your inbox must be full of them, right? It's like bad outreach. It's done all the time. But today we're going to talk about, you know, something you like talking about is creativity and experience-driven sales methods.

Unpack that a little bit for us. What does that mean? Yeah.

So when I was back, when I was the— in the copier space, I actually had a personal brand. So 2009, I birthed the personal brand and it was called the Copier Warrior. And people sat back and looked at that and thought, well, you're nuts. Like, this is weird. You live in a fantasy world, you know.

And I'm a millennial. I'm a gamer. I'm a dreamer. I'm a visionary. I'm all the things, you know, entertaining and creative about the world in the first place. I was a musician for a long time, played in a touring band on Warner Brothers Records and Pluto Records. And so for me, it was natural, but for other people, it was like this weird thing that was happening.

But what I know to be true in our walks as humans is that there is no reward without great risk, and that getting people out of their comfort zone actually gets us better results.

Mm-hmm.

And regardless of whether or not it feels a little strange or it's met with some tension, that over time that people recognize in the moment of being uncomfortable exactly like where you're taking them and that they like it. Better than the mediocre, the generic, and the bland direction that most people take them in the first place.

So I had to be bold. I had to be brave. But in the process, I found things for myself, unlocks, if you will, that were amazing where people say things like, oh, I set an appointment today. And you go, cool. Like, how? And they go, it was my 77th phone call and I just kept the person on the phone for like 5 minutes and they finally just You know, kneeled and took the meeting.

And you're like, oh, that's great. And then if the Copywriter Warrior's in the room, I go, yeah, I sent somebody a letter that was lit on fire. And I told them, hey, I pre-burned this thing because 90% of the sales and marketing you get is trash and is better used as kindle or to light up some marshmallows.

So I did you a favor. But if you'll do me one and keep reading, you know, maybe you'll find something interesting and we can get together. And I started to tap into these wins where like, you know, when you call that person, you don't have to be on the phone for 5 minutes.

It takes 30 seconds and they tell you everything, including their Social Security number, and they ask you to come down and marry their daughter. And the thought is, is that like if we can truly connect with people through creative context, emotional context, and stir something up in people that they're not used to having stirred up, so a full-on disruption of the pattern that they find to be typical throughout their day.

Yeah.

That in that moment, suddenly they're watching the Game of Thrones marathon and doing something they wished they could do, right? Which is to like live somewhere else just in a moment, right? But nonetheless, a moment that is more enjoyable than a crappy sales pitch.

Okay, cool. I like what you've talked about there. Pattern disruptors. I think that's a really interesting one, particularly in outreach because busy execs, they're getting tens if not hundreds of DMs offering to solve all their problems every day, right? And how do you stand out from that? And like that example you just gave where you sent a burning letter, a burnt letter to someone, that's a massive pattern disrupt.

However, that doesn't work for everyone, right? Like that kind of level of creativity, not everyone will do that. Do you have any kind of tips for people just to, I guess, who are maybe just using LinkedIn, for example, email outreach to like stand out a little bit more in their, in their like day-to-day outreach, right?

Yeah, I'm gonna try— I'm gonna challenge this in 2 ways. One, I'm gonna answer you with exactly what you wanna hear from me, but 2, I'm gonna tell people that are listening that say like, yeah, yeah, yeah, good question, Alex, because I would never do that. Stop saying that you would never do that.

Cool.

Stop. Yeah, like completely dissolve that word out of the vocabulary of you and your existence and get to the place that you are meant to be. The first time I took a student on outside of my comfort zone I said to myself, like, this could be bad, you know, because this individual even told me, he said, the only— I'm attracted to this energy you have, but I don't have it.

I don't— I can't do these things you're talking about. And I said, just promise me you'll try once anything I ask, and if it fails and it's really uncomfortable, then cool, right? And we kind of came to this mutual agreement. Well, the dude goes out and uses a campaign that I created for him.

It was an in-person campaign. This was 2019, right before the pandemic, which we still use the same campaign, by the way. And get the same results just using the mail, and I can go into that deeper if somebody wants to reach out to me specifically. However, he he dropped off 13 of these particular campaign pieces and and said that like his skin crawled for half of them, you know, and it was hard for him to do.

He set nine appointments, and these aren't just like down the street businesses. I can't say the names, but like some of the biggest franchises in the United States, some of the largest school systems in the in the United States, like wild the kind of results that he got, right? And so I would tell.

People, like when in your head something's telling you like, I could never do that, you're lying to yourself and you're holding yourself to the shackles of mediocrity. But what I would say too is that, you know, in the same way that you can do something like that letter, you can, sending it or dropping it off or however you do it, you can do it in a video, right?

You can do it in a voice note. You can do it in a creative way where you allow somebody to enter into this atmosphere, this particular aesthetic that you're trying to build for them to help them to understand that you fix problems, you don't sell things, right? That you're somebody here that not only will give an extrinsic, like reward-based value on what it is that your product can do and what you can do, but also intrinsic value because you have a sick network, you have awesome skills, you have passion, you have all these things that people can see and sense and know as you get to know them as well too through the process of good experiential outreach.

So for example, we got a real introverted person that has a really hard time even being on video, but knows that it works. And they actually take the same form of our letter campaign and they use what we call the crumpled version. And they hold it up to the camera and they show the person watching, you know, like, hey, this is a crumpled letter, I got it for you.

And they unfold it and they cut to a scene where the letter is on the screen, fully on the screen that you can read it. And they spend about 10 seconds with the letter on the screen, come back to them and say, I did it this way for you because if I send it in the mail, I don't know if it's going to show up.

And also because I didn't want to offend you by handing you something that was all crumpled up. So instead, I'm keeping it in my hand over here. And they have this whole talk track around it again, like makes them feel comfortable and that provides an experience for people. I mean, hell, bro, we've got all kinds of different examples of that kind of stuff.

But really what it is, is just stepping out of your comfort zone for a slight minute and doing something that's a little bit different that's going to reward you. You know, you want to make $500,000 a year selling copy machines like the Copier Warrior?

Yes.

You got to do things that are audacious and that some people look at as weird. In some cases and be okay with that.

Yeah. No, I love it. And I love how you said, don't say no, get no out of your vocabulary. I think that's a big one. I think it's very easy in sales roles or founders who are maybe doing selling for their startup is just to get kind of stuck in what they know and just doing the same things that they've always done.

And it's important to break out of that because if you're not getting the, like, the results that you want doing what you know, chances are you need to learn something new and try something different. So yeah, I love that advice. That's great. Tell me about some of the other kind of bad things that you're seeing in sales, you know, like what are the kind of one or two things that you're seeing people doing wrong all the time that needs to change tomorrow?

Yeah, so to kind of like piggyback on what you were just saying even, I believe that if we started to do sales in the way that I'm talking about and that our rebels do all over the world that train with us, that there would be more sales. That like literally like sales leaves so much on the table because so many efforts that are put out there are bad in the first place.

And we hear about them all the time. We see people trashing sales reps on LinkedIn and we see people talking smack about them in our circles. And you go to, you know, the family dinner and they find out you're in sales or the, you know, the family Thanksgiving, you know, dinner in the States and they find out you're in sales and they're like, oh, there's a liar here, you know, and like all the inside jokes come out and the stereotypes.

And I think that it's the sins of the father, bro. That's how I always look at it. And not my dad. My dad was an absolutely brilliant salesperson that was a servant leader and put people in his community before anything else. And that's what we're really doing here inside of what it is that we're allowing people to experience with us is we're putting them first and foremost at the forefront of what it is that we're trying to accomplish with them.

And it's an important piece of the puzzle for people to recognize because sales isn't about us, it's about serving others. And so like what I see that's bad out there again is the majority because it's based around this identity of like, I sell a product and I want you to buy from me.

And so people say things like, hey, you know, I just wanted to show you how I could make you more money if you use my program. You want to know how many people say that to me on a daily basis about your same freaking program with a different label on it? Like, don't give me that crap.

Instead, tell me, let me see the intrinsic value, right? Let me see what it is that like helped me to feel something familiar. Like, hey Dale, ever spend weekdays up until 9, 10 o'clock at night doing work on this particular thing? And I'm gonna read that and go, yes. And the next line could be anything, you know, for the most part.

And I'm gonna be curious enough to at least think about that first line long enough Then I might write you back and say, sure, yeah, tell me more, right? But again, the identity is that we have to answer the question of, so what? And also, no salesperson does that the right way. You know, people instead, they say, oh, but my brand is so good and my product is so helpful and the things that I can do for you are so amazing.

Nobody cares. Nobody cares as much as you. And so until people truly feel that you're taking care of them, they don't care, right? Until it starts to become something they care about, right? That's the thought.

Yeah, I think what you just said there, it's the idea of serving, super important. I always talk about that when I'm teaching, especially really young people how to sell, people who haven't picked up the bad habits yet, is really reinforcing that point home. It's far better to get to know the person you're trying to sell to, understand their pains, their problems, what's going on in their world, what are they like, who are they like as a person too.

And then if you can help them, help them. And if you can't help them, you know what? That's cool too. Maybe point them somewhere else where they can get the help. And I think flipping that mindset of, I've got this product with these 3 great features, are you interested? To, hey, maybe I can help this person and maybe not, that's okay, seems to be a lot more effective.

Right, right. I totally agree with you. I think it's the way of the future from a selling standpoint that we need to get back to because we used to do it. And the greats that some people look at as, you know, the legends of the sales world, like the Zig Ziglars of the world, the Dale Carnegies.

I mean, those guys taught it. Og Mandino is my favorite. He wrote a great book, The Greatest Salesperson on Earth. And it is the literal embodiment of what a servant leader is and what a salesperson should be. So as soon as we get back to those principles and that foundation as individuals, then sales will get better because this— people have— we've created a stereotype for sales and we've created this falsity of business perfectionism.

Professionalism, which isn't even a thing. You know, be professional. Like, tell them, be honest and be professional. Like, no, just like be honest all the time, right? You know, because if like, just because I have a suit and a tie on doesn't mean suddenly that I'm going to be honest with you, right?

Or that I have to be honest with you, right? That's dumb. And so we create these personas essentially by doing that. And that's where the stereotypes come in, right? And that's where really where human nature kicks in as well too, because like Listen, it's hard to be honest. It's easier to tell the little white lie and get the yes and deal with the problem later.

And so people have to rise up above something that's very, very atypical in our society to do in the first place, right? To be better at not just their job but as people building a community. So that's the call to action that we have at the Rebellion.

Servant leaders. I like how you phrase that. I think that's really important. What's your— like, for someone who's thinking about getting into sales or like just starting out, what's your like one bit of advice for them that that's going to help them get going quickly?

So I think the biggest, the biggest problem with people that are just getting into sales that I see is that a lot of folks, they, they like buy every book available And they, so they learned, you know, all these different ideas. And the problem is, is that most of them are just kind of activity concepts more than anything.

They're not, you know, they're not really teaching you much more than that. You know, like they're tricks and they're gimmicks. They're not real true human connection. They say things like, you've got to dial 150 people a week if you want to hit your metrics because this is how math works and how sales is these days.

And they, and they say you gotta email 1,000 people a month because you're only gonna get 4% to open your emails, and, and you're only gonna get 1% of those people to show interest, and this is how you hit your numbers. And I think that that can actually drive a salesperson, especially a new one, into a state of insanity to some extent.

And, and really just like connect them with something that disconnects again that, that very raw, very natural human emotion and the connector that we need in sales between one person and another. And, and so it, and it, it inhabilitates people. So instead, I would tell sellers when they first get into— the first thing that they can do is call up.

And I do this with all the, the green reps that I teach. I tell them, I said, call up your prospect list and say, hey, my name is Dale and I've got this script sitting in front of me. And I, because I just started in sales and I'm trying to get my, you know, my feet wet, my bearings set, and you're one of the people on my list.

But I don't really feel comfortable reading off this script. I'd rather just have a nice easy conversation with you to tell you a little bit about why I'm, I'm doing this, why I just chose this career, learn a little bit about you, and see if there's something that we could find in common and, and continue our conversations.

Would you give me that opportunity? And, and dude, 99% of the time when that happens, the person on the other phone is so interrupted, number one. And number two, they think back to when they got their start, so there's familiarity when they hear it. They go, Wow, I wish I'd have thought of this even, you know, in some cases, and they take the call.

And I've had so many students get their first sale from that phone call, right? And then, and then say like, can I do this for the next 9 years? Like, no, you got to stop at some point. But in the beginning, when you do it that way, you can ask the right questions, you know.

So when you do your introduction of your products and services, you can say things like, you know, one of the things that my script tells me is that I need to tell you about this, this, and this. Do you Do you have an opinion on that inside of like your process and like a way that I could maybe phrase it when talking to people?

And the person on the other line, unless they're extremely busy, right, they're gonna say, they're gonna be like, yeah, I mean, I would just ask. You know, and you'll find that a lot of people just want the blunt truth. You know, when I call sales leaders, I tell them it's Dale over at the Sales Rebellion.

And, you know, what I'm about to say, you're not gonna like because a lot of the things that we find success through are not the standards of the sales world, but if you'd like to take a couple minutes with me, I'll tell you about those ideas, and if anything resonates, we can keep talking.

You know, so sometimes it's hard to hear the truth, and if you lead with that mindset of you're not necessarily going to do a backflip over my pitch, but you know, it might help you— would you like, would you, would you like to take some time and let me reinvest back into your day?

Yeah, I think, I think that some of the sales managers out there who are writing these scripts or putting these scripts in front of their reps might not like that advice, but it's I can see it working and it just reminds me back when I was a rep years ago and was given a company pitch deck and was told that I need to be using that in all my pitches and I just saw this thing and I was like, dude, this is so bad.

So bad. It's just like 20 pages of just fluff. So I threw it out and just was having genuine conversations with people and I didn't even use any pitches. No pitch decks and had a 207% quarter and I remember my boss asked me, he's like— Oh, that's awesome. Tell the team, tell the team like how you did it.

And I said, well, I didn't use any of the stuff you gave me. I threw it out. I just talked to people. It's all about connection. I think you're right. It's that human side of selling we're losing sometimes with technology. And it's like you said, it's all like activity, activity, numbers, numbers. And yes, there is activity in sales.

I don't think that's— yes, you have to do activity, but it's important to remember that we are ultimately just people who want connection and have to connect with other people if we want to be successful. Dale, this has been a great chat. I've really enjoyed it. We've covered a few interesting areas and I think there's a bunch of gold in there for people listening.

Leave us with one last thing and tell us where we can find you.

Sure. So I'll start with the find me. SalesRebellion.com is a good place to start, or just Google Dale Dupree. You can find loads of guest content that I've done over the last several years of running this business. LinkedIn.com/im/copierwarrior if you wanna see daily content. We got a free Slack group as well too.

If you wanna DM me, I'll get you into there. And then any social site, Twitter, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, @SalesRebellion or /SalesRebellion will find me. And one more thing for people. I would just, I would tell people from a mindset perspective, right? Because everybody teaches mindset in sales, right? But most of it is this ideology of like, just keep going, you can do it and push harder.

I would tell salespeople to recognize that sales sucks. It's the second worst job to have, says all the statistics. That you got into a vertical in an industry That, that literally that people freaking hate, right? And it's not going to be much different for you. And so you've got to accept the suck at the forefront of what it is that you're doing and recognize that this industry needs a makeover and that you're not just a sales rep, you're a rebel.

And eventually you'll become a legend if you become that warrior status that I'm telling you about right now, which is to look at the stereotypes, to look at the negatives and to say, I will not take part in any of this. I will not be a generic salesperson. I will not be a robot.

I will not read from a script. I will be human. I will connect with people. I will cause them to have an awakening in the moments that they spend with me, and I will touch and impact their lives through the process, whether I sell them something or not. And to take that kind of a mindset instead of just this let's go get it mindset, but understanding that you're building a legacy every single day, it will cause people to look at you differently and to react much better than how Thanks for that, Dale.

That's awesome. I really appreciate your time today.

You got it, man. Appreciate you.